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other (interesting & relevant) guns
( note: the specifications are in the data table ! )
This is the place where I want to show other guns of interest, these are
weapons called ‘PDW’ by their manufacturer but without real PDW traits,
weapons used in a PDW role historically (mostly SMGs) and
weapons with features that are of interest for PDW design
Weapons called ‘PDW’ by their manufacturer but without real PDW traits
HK MP5K / MP5K- PDW
Heckler & Koch developed a short-barrel, buttstockless version of its famous, successful and good MP5 (the MP5K) that had a fore grip and usually a short magazine. The introduction was in 1976. The sales of this package weren’t very numerous but improved when it got a special folding shoulder stock and was renamed “MP5K-PDW” in 1991. The weaknesses of this weapon in comparison to the ideal PDW include usually small magazine capacity, short sight radius/only iron sights, no high-penetration, no high-velocity bullet with good ballistic coefficient, only pistol-like 9x19mm wound ballistic potential. Therefore, it’s rather a submachinegun that was optimised for small dimensions and good single-shot accuracy at short distances than a PDW that could penetrate soft body armour.
www.hkdefense.us/pages/military-le/smg/mp5/mp5k-pdw.html
www.world.guns.ru/smg/smg15-e.htm
www.knox.army.mil/center/ocoa/armormag/mj02/3PDWs02.pdf
remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/pdw/pdw.htm
users.belgacom.net/jm_armes/HKmp5/PDWMP5.htm (in French)
Jati-Matic / GG-95 PDW
This is a commercially quite unsuccessful submachinegun which looks quite weird because of the barrel location. This allows the bolt to recoil up an inclined plane at angle to the barrel -that shall compensate for some of the muzzle climb. It has a select-fire trigger and a (albeit rudimentary) folding fore grip, two desirable features for a PDW. But the cartridge is a normal 9x19, so the same limitations as for the MP5K-PDW are in action (plus its blowback action isn’t as accurate as the MP5K-PDW’s delayed blowback closed bolt operation). The weapon was marketed as Jati-Matic in 1980-1987 and as GG-95 PDW since 1995 (by a different corporation).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/jatimatic_gg-95_smg_pdw
www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2600/2646.htm
This is a multi-caliber pistol project for a unique weapon with a top horizontal high-capacity magazine. This is apparently possible also in traditional pistol calibres. I’m not sure, but maybe the quite forward position of the grip reduces muzzle climb a bit.
www.defensereview.com/crane1/Marshal Arms Pistol PDW Horizontal Magazine Feed Cycle.jpg
www.defensereview.com/crane1/Marshal Arms Pistol PDW Promo_Front.jpg
www.defensereview.com/crane1/Marshal Arms Pistol PDW Promo_Back.jpg
www.marshalarmsinc.com/Products_2.html
www.marshalarmsinc.com/HorizontalMagazine.html
airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2006/11/horizontal_feed.html
PDW PS-2000
Why do I mention this Slovakian gun? Its name begins with PDW, yet it’s just a normal 9x19mm submachinegun. It’s only unusual feature are fully ambidextrous controls - left- and right-handers can use it without problems. So I consider this as a typical attempt to improve SMG sales by adding “PDW” somewhere into the name.
weapons used in a PDW role historically (mostly SMGs)
...just examples - I’d need to be crazy to attempt a full list...
Colt M1911A1
Well, this is one of the most famous pistols world-wide and holds the record of being the service pistol with the longest time as standard pistol of an army. It represents a compeltely different pre-PDW approach to arming soldiers with more comfortable weapons than a carbine but more powerful than a normal pistol or revolver. Most nations approached the problem with a submachinegun. These SMGs were able to generate high volume of fire with acceptable practical accuracy out to around 100m. The U.S. Army chose instead to use this quite heavy and large pistol and achieve the edsired effect with a powerful large calibre bullet instead of with high volume of fire. This concept allowed the usage of the weapon as secondary weapon for combat troops (machinegunners, snipers and alike with a primary weapon ill-suited for close combat). The pistol was also compatible to a holster and overall compact and at least light enough for the modern PDW concept. Armour penetration was no issue till the 80’s (although steel helmets, early flak vests with fiberglass inserts and equipment like magazine pouches were able to stop the bullet). This U.S. American way of pre-PDW sucked royally in one regard - if the pistol was the only weapon available, it was utterly inadequate at combat ranges beyond 25 m, probably under influence of combat stress and ill-trained non-combat troops even at as little as 15 m distance. It did also lead to an almost uniquely U.S. American desire to carry a secondary sidearm in addition to weapons like assault rifles. Maybe this was also due to a lack of trust in the assault rifle (M16) and machiengun (M60), but almost all other armies in the world reason that an additional magazine pouch for two assault rifle magazines is a better use for the volume and weight.
This weapon is so well-known that I’m too lazy to provide links...
IMI UZI
Despite it’s said to have lost out to the Sterling in trials, the UZI was adopted for a PDW-alike role in the German Bundeswehr (not in Israel) for political reasons. I personally observed that despite the size (the Bundeswehr had many UZIs with fixed wooden buttstock) and weight it was well-liked by NCOs and officers simply because it was something different than the standard assault rifle G3 used by the conscripts. It was also a bit lighter and shorter. No NCOs and officers that I met considered wearing a P1 pistol as being armed. The UZI is one of the most famous submachineguns in the world.
www.remtek.com/arms/imi/uzi/uzi.htm
www.bellum.nu/armoury/IMIUzi.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzi_submachine_gun
www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Subs/IMI_UZI.htm
http://www.uzi.org/ / http://www.uzi.org/uzimanual.pdf
www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/uzi.html (in German)
MP 38/40
I was astonished when I read that this classic German World War II submachinegun was developed rather because the Panzertruppe urged for a new submachiengun than becasue of the infantry’s requirements. The infantry still held in most -if not all- armies the opinion that long range rifle fire was still essential. They considered the WW I experience with combat at typically less than 100 m distance as not representative for the next wars. That’s why they neglected buying enough new submachineguns. SMGs were introduced in large quantities in all armies during WW II because no full automatic assault rifles were yet in service (only late in the war in Germany) and few semi-automatic rifles/carbines (only the U.S. had lots of Garands, Germany and USSR had quite few in use). So a classic WW II submachinegun was first primarily intended for PDW-alike uses...again we see that the idea of a PDW is no new thing - only the armour piercing requirements are really ‘new’ (well, now about two decades old).
www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/mp40.html (in German)
Sten gun
Britain entered the Second World War with no submachinegun stocks to speak of. The pre-war designs like Thompson’s were sold out and the need for small arms was pressing after the evacuation of Dunkirk. The British army had both to re-arm and to expand to meet the threat of a German invasion in 1940. The Sten gun design excelled in the trials and was the to date (and probably ever) least expensive submachiengun. It could be produced in other than small arms ffactories and even workshops. It supplemented the firepower of the infantry on short distances (up to 100 m), but was also very wide-spread in PDW-alike roles with non-combat troops.
Sterling / Patchett L2
The Sterling became the delayed successor to the Sten gun, being more expensive but also more accurate. It succeeded the Sten Gun in many Commonwealth countries and was used in PDW-alike applications.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_submachine_gun
PM-63 / Wz 63 / (“RAK”)
This polish submachinegun/machine pistol has much of what’s expected from a PDW - except power. It uses normal, not exactly powerful, pistol cartridges. The folding fore grip and integral folding shoulder stock seem to be good things. A weakness is that the sights move during full-auto firing, complicating aiming. It was used as commando SMG and in a military self-defence role by the Polish military. It can be considered as a machine pistol despite its rather heavy weight and large size for that category.
hem.passagen.se/dadkri/Pm-63.htm
weapons with features that are of interest for PDW design
Agram 2000
This Beretta-derived submachinegun lacks a shoulder stock and only became famous as a weapon of criminals in Europe. The fore grip seems pretty interesting - he won’t get entangled with other gear as easily as a normal fore grip can.
www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1600/1628.htm
Heckler & Koch HK36
This was an attempt of a micro-caliber assault rifle with several innovations being tested. The innovation that interests most in the context of PDW development is that the small-calibre bullet had a asymmetrical hard core to achieve both satisfactory wounding (tumbling) and penetration (hard core) capability. This was not used in the similar calibre 4.6x30mm later on, so it’s unknown to me whether the asymmetrical design is really effective. But it serves as a hint that after all, bullet design is very relevant ... standard ball and AP designs don’t suffice if you’re talking about a weapon that some require to be no more clumsy than a pistol while others ask for a bullet as powerful as an assault rifle’s bullet.
Jati-Matic / GG-95 PDW (mentioned already above)
This as well as the KRISS-V submachinegun design show a method to make muzzle climb in full automatic fire controllable. Barrel and rear grip are almost in one line, there’s no recoil force moving on an axis above the hand and therefore pulling the forward part of the weapon up. Well, in case of the Jati-Matic, this is at least reduced and in the KRISS-V example probably really non-existant. There are several possibilities to achieve a weaker muzzle climb, just to list those that I know at an instant;
- less recoil impulse (especially by lighter bullet)
- heavier weapon (especially heavy fore end)
- recoil dampening (stretching recoil over time making it more controllable)
- compensator (asymmetric muzzle that allows to escape more gasaes upwards than downwards to act as counter-force
- buttstock/hand grip in line with barrel
MAT 49
This is one of the few submachinaguns that can fold their vertical magazine into the horizontal. It certainly helps making a loaded weapon less clumsy and could (in machine pistols with magazine in front of the rear grip) help to make the weapon holster-compatible.
www.vietnam-war.info/weapons/mat49_sub_machine_gun.php
fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAT_49 (in French)
www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/mat49.html (in German)
SITES SA Spectre M4
The company SITES SA developed the Spectre as a counter to suden ambushes. Security personnel like bodyguards should be able to return fire instantly without wasting valuable seconds with readying the gun. They achieved this by special safeties and single action-alike closed bolt design. Another advantage is the accuracy in full auto fire that was achieved by the grip layout and the operating principle (better than traditional SMGs). The final interesting feature is the high-capacity magazine - 30 or 50 cartridges in four columns. This SMG is too heavy for being carried by non-combat troops all the time with 2900 grams empty (not worse than P90), but the features are interesting.
www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1600/1618.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_M4
www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Subs/Sites_Spectre.htm
www.moviebadgirls.com/gunpage_88_1.html (just for fun :-) )
TsKIB SOO OTs-39
This good-looking and partially ambidextrous submachinegun is worth an entry because it’s among those which use the 7.62x25mm Tokarev cartridge. This cartridge did interest me for the first time when I saw it in a ballistics book in a threat category together with 10mm Auto, 357 SIG, 9x21mm - above 9x19mm. The author listed it in the higher category not due to its energy but due to its 12.71 J/mm2 energy density / sectional kinetic energy (or however that’s translated - the exact value will only be achieved with some unspecified but likely realistic barrel) - more than twice as much as for the 9x18mm Makarov cartridge that was after all used as a basis for some decent AP cartridges. The OTs-39 seems to be the latest or at least among latest and most modern submachineguns for this cartridge.
Semi-jacketed exposed steel core bullets
This bullet design (look at the bottom of the page) is very interesting because it combines a steel core with expanding bullet characteristics for pistol calibres. This bullet transforms a normal 9mm pistol into one that can defeat soft body armour (level II most likely).
So what? Do I propose a submachinegun with Spectre’s safeties and closed bolt operation coupled with the select fire trigger and ‘wrong’ look of the Jati-Matic (by having the barrel pointing towards the rear grip and folding buttstock)? Probably with semi-jacketed exposed steel core cartridges in 7.62x25 mm Tokarev, a fore grip like the Agram 2000, ambidextrous controls and a folding high-capacity four-column magazine?
No, I don’t. First, the special fore grip would collide with the folded magazine as would likely any folding fore grip as well. Second the Spectre’s trigger functionality would probably prevent a select fire trigger. Third a folded magazine needs to be readied, wasting time that Spectre’s design saved. nevertheless, it would be an interesting SMG idea to combine some of the features and I’d understand if someone produced something like that instead just one more SMG without special features such as most of the probably hundreds SMG designs already in existance. I’ll never understand why so many designs without special features were produced over time.
But such a SMG design would still be no real PDW, just a potentially great SMG. It would be badly out-ranged by enemy infantry weapons and still be too large and heavy for carrying it all the time in a holster.
www.personaldefenceweapons.com
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